Woken in the small hours, 5th October

Yup, another night of misery for Ramsgate, as you'll see from the comments below. Here's a number of things for you all to think about:

• There will be a public meeting of KIACC (the Consultative Committee for the airport) on Tuesday 11th October. This is usually held in the passenger lounge at Manston. Time to be confirmed. [Correction: the KIACC meeting is Friday 21st October, time TBA. I was cruelly misled!]
• PLEASE could you check through the piss-poor replies you've had to earlier complaints for late Tuesday nights/early Wednesday mornings - I think we may have an unofficial timetable operating. Use the comments on this post to enter the date, time, and operator/aircraft details.
• A new contact within TDC for you is Madeline Homer, on madeline.homer@thanet.gov.uk - Ms Homer has taken on Brian White's role in Regeneration, and reported to the recent Airport Working Party that:
  • the S106 is voluntary (wrong)
  • the current monitoring gives no cause for concern (judge for yourselves)

---

---

(1) low flying flight at ten past midnight tonight coming over augusta road, ramsgate

---

(2) Large plane just landed at Manston at 12.05 a.m. Think blue and yellow livery, including 4 letters beginning A .T. ?. ?. Woke us up!

---

(3) I've sent 2 complaints to the airport and KIACC this week re the planes coming in at midnight at 2:50 am. Admittedly the latter two were this evening but aside from the standard automatic responses I've not heard anything from Manston. Is there a contact at Thanet council we can also direct complaints to? Very awake now at this ungodly hour!

---

(4) Yet again I find my family being woken during the night. Twice!

In your capacity as the airport spokesman can I ask how it is that flights are operating at these times despite there supposed to be an agreement in place that flights do not operate at night.

Obviously by now I understand that when TDC refers to a fines regime it actually means that the operator does what it wants and TDC says "fine", however, please indulge me and arrange for the usual standard letter setting out that there is no penalty for the operator and the excuses why. Perhaps, as in the case of my complaint re the 3:50am flight, this letter could again come from the environmental protection manager just to cap the ridiculousness of the situation.

I have copied in my councillor so that they are aware of my complaint.

---

Update on Oct 5, 2011 at 23:27 by HBM

Keep them coming, folks...

---

(5) Dear All,

I would like to make you all aware that this morning my family and myself where woken at 03.00 hours and then roused from a fitful sleep again at 04.30 by aircraft taking off from Manston in a Westerly direction.

I do not fully understand 106 or who regulates this airport and its owners all I know is that it is these early hour flights disturb my family by waking us all, this takes its toll on all of us during the day. Long-term ??

I will also share with you any response that I receive from the airport or it owners.

---

(6) Another one came over low after that - must have been 2 or 3am - woke me up. Hope to see everyone at the public meeting.

---

(7) In addition to the testimonies on NoNightFlights, I would like to add mine:

I can testify that a large plane passed over Priory Road, Ramsgate, just after midnight last night; I was still awake after coming back home from a long day's work in London.

In addition, I was awoken suddenly in the middle of the night while dreaming; it was a very unsettling experience and, today, my concentration for work is affected.

I would like to know why, as residents of Thanet, we are not kept informed by the council of what is happening with Manston Airport, and, in particular, of the issue of night flights: I could not find any related current information on the TC website, and have never received any letter or flyer by post on the topic (In contrast, I remember being informed of the construction of a wind farm at sea in Broadstairs). Instead, I have to rely on unofficial websites such as the NoNightFlights one.

A few months ago, I wrote to Laura Sandys asking as to why we are not kept informed of progress (either way), but got no answer.

I have no hope of a positive outcome for this issue in this society where political decisions are money-driven and I do not understand the vision the TC has for the future of Thanet (inductry or tourisnm?); all I am asking is to be kept informed of any approval for night flights and how many will take place, so that I (and other residents) can make a decision as to whether it is still worth living in Ramsgate.

My current job is located in London, and I would see no more reason to carry-on commuting if it is to come back to a noisy polluted town.

In advance, I thank you for your attention and I hope to hear from you.

---

(8) And another one at 03:00, which woke me up.  It beggars belief that any sane politician could be in favour of permitting an expansion of activities which expose their own electorate to sleep deprivation.

---

(9) I would just like to share with you all the bog standard letter that I have now received on three occasions when I have raised complaints to Infratil at Manston airport.

It does not matter how the taking off and landing off aircraft is dressed up in noise data, new engine plane data or noise envelope data the truth is that unless you live four perhaps five miles away it will have an effect on sleep and people’s lives.

Each time an aircraft takes off I am woke up and spent the next couple of hours trying to get back to sleep, this does not help me the following day when I am trying to work !

When I move to this location I was content with the level of night flights and how they were suppose to be controlled and monitored however the proposed changes that the airport would like to make to the quantity of flights is blighting the area without even being approved.

---

Comments

[John]

Think it was this one
Airline: Cargolux
Flight: CV719
From: Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta (NBO)
Via: Manston Manston (MSE)
To: Luxembourg Findel (LUX)
Aircraft: Boeing 747-4B5 /BCF (B744)
Reg: LX-ACV
Hex: 4D0139
Altitude: 6625 ft (2019 m)
Speed: 236 kt (437 km/h, 272 mph)
Track: 295°
Pos: 51.15225 / 1.9355
Radar: NET2

2011-10-05/01:10UTC/CLX719

[SH]

Woken this morning at 4.35am and couldn't get back to sleep by a plane moving about the runway, revving up and taking off towards Herne Bay. As Nethercourt residents we are affected by planes taking off in either direct. There was also another a few nights ago.

Can't find a link on the airport website to complain - previous email complaints to them have been unacknowledged.

[SF]

My partner and I were woken suddenly at 02.49am this morning (Wednesday 5th October) by very large, very noisy plane flying straight over our heads, very angry.

[CP]

[Re SH comment above- the Airport Complaint link is at the bottom of the Airport's Contact Us page]
This a copy of my complaint submitted. The time was 2.50am. I was woken up by one of your planes coming into land. Felt angry and depressed in knowledge that this is what you’d be choosing to do to me for the rest of my life, and you couldn’t care less. Couldn’t get back to sleep and put TV on. Was still awake at 3.50 am. Must have finally dropped off. Felt miserable next morning and rubbish tired by the following pm. Night flights are an affront to humanity.

[Denis Cannon]

Is there anyone who has the phone numbers of the Thanet councillors ? If so then please publish them. I for one would be happy to call them anytime a night flight takes place so they might share the benefit of being woken in the small hours.

[GR]

I also was woken by the 02.50am flight on Wednesday the 5th of October. Living in Grange Road, any planes using this Manston Airport approach, fly over my property, all at a very low altitude. Outward bound aircraft fly at a slightly higher altitude than incoming, usually creating much more engine noise.

I was informed by the previous owners of Manston Airport, that incoming aircraft fly on a 3 degree flight path. They ommited to say where the descent started from. I am fairly certain, that if any aircraft continued to descend at the same rate as which they pass over here, they would not reach the runway.

I do not understand why they need to fly so low this far from the airport, as I have noticed that some planes seem to cllmb again before making their final approach. This may well be an optical illusion!

Some constructive, honest dialogue, from both InFRATIL and TDC would be most welcome.

However the response of the present airport owners as with TDC is reminiscent of the Three Brass Monkeys.

[Derek Carter]

An aircraft landed on 02.51 on wed.5th oct.and one took off at 03.03 I spoke to the complaints dept.
and was told it was from Africa.
The flight was held up in departure hence the late arrival, and as "time is money" the arrival and
departure was allowed ! ! !

I am waiting for written conformation of this conversation from KIA

D.C. Cliffsend

[Wellington Clam]

The truth is that until the radar properly tracks a departure/landing, the airport cannot - and I repeat this, so everyone understands, cannot be adequately monitored or reported by Infratil to either the complainant, KIACC or TDC that it (the landing/departure) follows all the procedures ect. This aspect was discussed at the recent AWP. Yes you guessed it folks, a decade of being told porkies!!!!

[RGG-Ramsgate seafront]

We were also woken at 2.50am Wednesday morning and then had to listen to the reverse thrust and plane taxiing on runway -this plane was flying incredibly low and was very noisy and frightening - is this was TDC want for their very concerned residents?

[Linda]

Its about time Thanet Council and Infratil stopped the night flights which are occuring on a regular basis - nightly -inside the no fly times. There must be milllions, from the illegal flights charges, in the Community fund from all the flights that come over my house (Beltinge, Herne Bay) at all hours of the night. I used to make a list of times I heard an aircraft but it got to the stage where, as there were so many, I was trying to remember the times to write down in the moring rather than trying to sleep which affected my lifestyle in a big way.
If this is the way they treat us now what the hell is it going to be like if night flights are approved.
If this dreadful thing does happen - if the TDC Councillors cave in to lies and pressure from Infratil I feel we should all stand together and go to the European Court of Human Rights - Someone has to listen regarding OUR rights Infratil certainly wont.

[Nick Cumber]

Low plane flying over Ramsgate on 13/10/2011 at 00:32am. Woke me and both my children up.

[SH]

Finally got a reply from the airport - the crucial bit was they admitted the following activity around the time of my complaint.


Date Time Operator/Aircraft Comments

04.10.11 Delayed Arrival 0012 Atlas Air B744 QC2

05.10.11 Departure0304 QC4

05.10.11 DelayedArrival 0249 Cargolux B744 QC2

05.10.11 Departure 0434 QC4

[FP]

Re Airport response to SH complaint: The Airport detail there confirms 'certified noise rating' level of QC2 for the landing B744's (which are a version of 747's) that woke so many of us that night. We have to do all we can to dispel a commonly-held (but totally wrong) belief, that planes certified 'only' QC 2 (& QC1 - which have a minumum 90 decibel 'score'), are 'more acceptable' because they're the 'relatively quieter' ones. At the stage of flying at such low height (as they all have to over Ramsgate); their being 'quieter than an even noisier one' has no 'sleep-protective' benefit whatsover for those beneath it. It's still so loud it wakes you up.