You say (9)

#Manston #nightflights

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My objections to night flights is for the noise we get from these low flying aircraft coming in to land it’s bad enough during the day.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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Dear Sirs,

I must protest about the proposed night flights we live in Cliffsend just south of the runway during the day when planes take off towards the east we cannot hear our television till they have passed over, when they take off to the west we have to put up with the smell of aviation fuel, when they arrive or take off in the night the noise wakes us both up, surely it cannot be right that we will suffer all night.

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You say (8)

#Manston #nightflights

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Hello I am against night flights from Manston Air Port between 11pm and 7am due to the amount of noise that will be produced over my house from the engines and I get up for work at Kent & Canterbury Hospital at 5.30am so I am in bed by 10pm and being a light sleeper I will be kept awake most of the night due to the noise this will also impact on my quality of life.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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I wish to make it known that I am completely opposed to the Night flights proposal to Manston Airport. My home is directly in the flight path of the planes over Herne Bay - which sometimes fly so low during the day, that I can see the Logos on the tail, and are always noisy, causing me irritation even though my home has double glazing.

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You say (7)

#Manston #nightflights

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NO Night Flights Please

I live about 300 metres from the flight path and they are clearly audible when flights are landing outside of permitted times as it is.

Also, am concerned for residents living directly under the flight path and the effect interrupted sleep patterns would have on children's learning. Friends of mine enjoy visiting Ramsgate but have stated they would not continue to do so if night flying started.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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Please take note that we are AGAINST Night Flights between 11pm and 7am at Manston Airport.

How can it be justified to have Night Flights into and out of Manston Airport ? There are enough hours in the daytime to have these extra flights, why on earth should night time be even considered.

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You say (6)

#Manston #nightflights

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I would like to register my objection to any increase in night flying at Manston. I and my neighbours are regularly disturbed by take-offs and landings at Manston during the daytime and any extension of this tonight times would be intolerable.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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We live directly under the flight path. During the day when the largest of the aircraft come over to land the noise is almost unbearable. But as it is during the day we can hear the planes approaching and are ready for the noise. If they were any closer to our home they would be landing on the roof.

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You say (5)

#Manston #nightflights

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This email is to let you know that I am opposed to night flights at Manston on the grounds that I live directly under the flight path the noise will cause the deprivation of sleep which in itself is a heath risk. Tourism will be greatly affected with the loss of more jobs than will be created at Manston.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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I may be uniquely qualified to comment on the effect of night flights at Manston. I fly 25K- 30K miles a year usually spread over between 8 and 12 flights, so spend quite a lot of time at and travelling to, airports. Because of the geographical spread of my family I spend several months living close to Sydney, Kingsford Smith airport, I spend some weeks about 15 miles from Stansted Airport and most of the rest of the time in Broadstairs.

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You say (4)

#Manston #nightflights

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As Ramsgate rate-payers in an urban post-code directly affected by Manston air traffic, we wish to register our protest at the prospect of night-flights in and out of Manston airport between the hours of 11pm and 7am.

The health, rest and quality of life of the rate-paying residents of this historic part of Kent should be paramount in the consideration of Thanet District Council, and we urge you to reject the Manston night-flight proposals.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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Passenger Flight have failed every time they have been introduced.

The Cargo Planes are incredibly noisy - even Double Glazing does not block the noise. Are you going to install Triple Glazing in all properties affected by this?

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You say (3)

#Manston #nightflights

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I am against Manston’s Night Flying Proposal because of the effect on my health. I live very close to the West end of Manston Runway. Being woken up by noisy aeroplanes several times a night is, in my opinion going to severely affect my health.

I also believe that the economic benefits claimed by the Airport owners are exaggerated.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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I'm against night flights at Manston airport. Thanet's main sources of income are service based, relying on tourism and language students in particular. Both these industries help families and businesses across the board, and both will be affected by night disturbances.

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You say (2)

#Manston #nightflights

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I am totally opposed to any night flights operating between the hours of 11pm and 7am into or out of Manston Airport. I and my family do not want to be disturbed during the night by aircraft noise as proper rest and undisturbed sleep are vital to one's wellbeing.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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I object to the proposal to allow the operation of night flights out of Manston.

Prior to living in Kent, I used to live close to Gatwick, and am aware of how night time flights blight the entire community.

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You say (1)

#Manston #nightflights

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I am strongly against Manston’s night flying proposal.

I changed the habit of a lifetime at the last election and voted Labour because of the stand they made on this subject.

They seem to now be sitting on the fence on this matter reneging on a pre election promise.

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Click to have your say in the Public Consultation on Night Flights

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I live directly under the flight path and wish to register my protest against Infratil's proposals. I have already been woken up several times in the past by very noisy cargo planes flying very low over my house in the middle of the night. Double-glazing and thick loft insulation does not block out the noise.

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Cut out the middleman

Looks like Manston may want to filter any responses it receives in the night flight consultation process.

A couple of our readers are shocked and horrified. Not only has Manston somehow managed to insert itself into the consultation process (by inviting people to send their responses direct to the airport), but it appears that anything the airport receives will not necessarily be sent to TDC.

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Tannoyance

Where in Ramsgate can you hear the Tannoys at the port and the station? Wherever it is, that's where this chap lives. He signs himself Mr Porter, although his email address suggests his name is Mr Turner. Either way, he asks some oft-repeated questions.

Quick answers: (1) and (2) - it is because we live and have our livelihoods under and near the flight paths that we are so concerned; (3) not sure how this is relevant - I don't need to be a civil engineer to have an opinion on whether I want a dual carriageway built in my gardern; (4) I am so bored of this one.

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Groupthink

Looking at the unutterable shambles surrounding Manston airport, I once again found myself wondering - how on earth did this happen?

One possible explanation is the all-too-common phenomenon of groupthink, which has been described as "collective optimism and collective avoidance".

The idea was developed in the early 1970s by Irving Janis, who identified three causes and eight symptoms of groupthink. See how many you can spot that apply to TDC over the last decade or so:

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Infratil's ex-CEO dies

Infratil founder Lloyd Morrison died in Seattle this morning after a three-year battle with cancer. He was 54.

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At last, Herne Bay gets a mention

Herne Bay residents will be delighted that our Council has finally stirred itself. They will be looking at all the responses from the CCC area, collating them, and presenting Canterbury's considered opinion.

Hopefully, this will mean that the views of Herne Bay residents will, in effect, be presented twice - firstly in TDC's analysis of the responses, and secondly when reiterated by Canterbury.

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Night Flights? No thanks!

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Public Consultation

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In a nutshell:

• Email the TDC Night Flights Consultation.
• The first line of your email should make it clear that you are against night flights between 11pm and 7am.
• Use the rest of your email to explain why, if you want to.
• You MUST give your name, full address and post code.

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Night Flights? No thanks - and here's why...

The Proposal

• scheduled night flights are currently banned, but the airport already has the flexibility to handle late arrivals
• the proposal is for SCHEDULED night flights… you will go to bed every Monday night knowing that you will be woken at, say, 1:30am and 4am

TDC’s report says

• these night flights are for freight, not passenger flights
• the proposal exaggerates the economic benefit - night flights won’t necessarily make jobs
• the proposal understates the noise nuisance from night flights

Night

• night time is from 11pm until 7am - this is the standard definition, as used in the existing agreement, and throughout the aviation industry, and in national and international legislation
• BUT… the new proposal wants to shorten it to 11:30pm until 6am - stealing 1½ hours of your night!
• restrictions would only apply to this new shorter “night” - the other 1½ hours would be completely unrestricted, just like the daytime

Numbers

• if Manston had the same proportion of night flights as Heathrow, there would be 15 night flights a year
• Manston want 659 flights a year in this new shorter “night” - an average of 1.8 each night… could be none on Monday, none on Tuesday, 5 on Wednesday
• between 11pm and 11:30pm, there would be no limit on the number of flights
• between 6am and 7am, there would be no limit on the number of flights
• any plane due in before 11:30pm that’s late would be allowed to land between 11:30pm and 6am
• any plane due in after 6am that’s early would be allowed to land between 11:30pm and 6am
• in practice, this proposal would mean unlimited flights between 11pm and 7am

Noise

• the European Court of Human Rights says that sleep is a human right
• never mind the decibels, here's a rule of thumb: if it wakes you up, it's too loud
• even if it doesn’t wake you, night noise can disturb your sleep patterns, leaving you less rested, and with raised blood pressure
• even if it doesn’t bother you, spare a thought for your family, friends and neighbours who are bothered by the noise
• anyone who suffers from anxiety or depression, will experience increased suffering
• sleep deprivation means children perform less well in school
• sleep deprivation increases the risk of accidents at home, on the roads and at work
• noise isn't just annoying: it's dangerous, and can even be deadly

Employment

• after 11 years, Manston employs just 110 people, some part-time. 66% live in Thanet.
• the average pay at Manston is lower than the average pay in Thanet
• most of the "jobs" Infratil say will be created are imaginary - the result of totting up tiny statistical fractions of jobs: the fuel delivery driver in East Africa, the barber in Ramsgate who cuts the pilot's hair, etc
• the aviation industry has become increasingly automated, and less reliant on people - just 20% more people could handle double the current UK air traffic
• Manston recently admitted that if they doubled the amount of freight they handle, and increased the passengers from 30,000 a year to ¾ million a year, they would create just 23 new jobs
• jobs created at and near airports are heavily outnumbered by jobs lost in the domestic tourism and hospitality industries

and…

• Manston has plenty of spare capacity in the daytime
• the proposal has no fines or penalties if Manston breaks the limits

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 ... and that's just for starters! Do feel free to use the Comments to add your own suggestions.

Public consultation starts on Manston's night flying proposal

Runs until Friday 2 March 2012

Thanet District Council is now asking members of the public for their views on proposals for regular night-time flying at Manston Airport. The proposals were submitted by Infratil, owners of the airport, on 27 October 2011 and included an aircraft noise assessment report and economic assessment, which are technical reports explaining the implications of the proposal.

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Tit for tat at TDC

Manston is now a political football, and will be kicked around until Infratil take their ball home.

Cllr Bayford, who was Leader of the Council when both of Manston's night flying proposals were received, is now indulging in the time-honoured political tradition of finger-pointing, name-calling and blame-shifting.

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Manston in damage limitation mode

Charles Buchanan doesn't think that the independent report into the effect of development at Manston "challenged" his claims over economic benefit and noise pollution. No, it rubbished them.

Click it to big itCharles Buchanan says "we employ a lot of people in Margate". According to the proposal, 17.1% of the "about 110" staff... 19 people.

Bob Bayford says "the people most motivated to respond are those who have a negative view".  Oh dear, Bob, what's happened to your faith in human nature? Surely you don't believe that people with a positive view (i.e. have fallen for the sales pitch) are all going to be apathetic?

Cllr Bayford continues: "there will be activists going around encouraging people to respond negatively"... Hmmm, I expect there will be airport executives (and maybe councillors?) going round encouraging people to respond positively, too... but that doesn't seem to bother Bob.

I wonder if Bob has tripped into the pre-determination trap.

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The nasty niceties of planning

Manston is nowhere near as simple in planning terms as other airports.

The absence of an overall planning consent and environmental impact assessment mean that there are unique circumstances which significantly change the legal landscape. Manston cannot apply for planning permission for night-flights on their own. They have to apply for planning permission for the whole airport.

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